戚本忠的話 A Word from Qi Ben-zhong

這是來自大觀自救會所舉辦之大觀社區導覽的紀實錄音，也是《大觀錄二段40號》的取樣素材之一
This is a recording of the Daguan community tour guide, which is used as sound material to make the album "No. 40, Section 2, Daguan Rd," released in support of the Daguan community in New Taipei City, Taiwan that is about to be evicted in June, 2019.

戚本忠：
把福利金扣下來，把那個金額還給你叫你離開這個地方，就不准你在這個地方做生意。當時兩千五百塊蠻大的，買地的話一坪十幾塊二十塊，你看兩千五百塊買多少地。那我父親當時就配合政府德政啊，沒有去外面買地。因為馬上反攻大陸去了，所有跟政府的單位都連在一起。所以變成現在我們這個樣子不知道怎麼辦我也搞不清楚。
他民國五十七年本來退輔會來這邊蓋榮家，借用是用部分土地蓋。本來我們第一次導覽的時候可以到榮家裡面，後來就把門關了不讓我們進去，他心裡有鬼怕我們怎樣。裡面這塊碑文不在了，剩下那塊碑文在那邊。
這民國五十七年他借用婦聯軍這塊地來蓋榮家，那你蓋了接管單位你要處理我們。就像人家所說的：父債子還，我父親欠的債我兒子要還。那你這個單位接收，我們上面這個東西你要去處理，你沒有處理啊。他民國六十三年土地變更的時候想到，民國六十三年、六十四年接收這塊土地保管，管理單位就對了。你管理到現在，九十七年告我們侵佔國有地。那這段時間在幹什麼不知道。
八十二年的時候我們提出證明，提出要想買這塊地、承租這塊地。他發文下來，叫我們拿出證明出來。我們拿了證明出來，民國五十年建的證明。接下來，又沒有消息。那這樣說我們侵佔國有地對嗎？你榮家還沒有來的時候我就在這邊生活了，我那時候繳租金。就因為民國五十二年的時候淹大水，整個眷村遷走，這個地就沒有人管了。突然間陸總部來接收這塊地就說他去買賣這塊地、承購這塊地。發生在四十五年的事情，他五十五年承購、買賣這塊地，五十五年他去登記買賣。那這段時間我們算什麼？對不對。
這個歷史淵源是這樣過來的。榮家說我侵佔國有地、我是被政府招來這邊做生意的，是不是這樣子沒有錯吧？那你現在說我侵佔國有地，要處理我房子。你不能說我侵佔國有地，告我們拆屋還地。你房子是我們蓋的，當初拿兩千五百塊，現在值多少錢不知道。因為當時的地一坪十幾塊而已，兩千五百塊現在值多少地了，對不對？到八十四年這個事情、九十七年告我們侵佔國有地嘛。我一百零一年曾經到總統府去，到退輔會就沒有下文了。總統府到行政院，行政院給退輔會，他就不理你沒有下文了。到了去年八月十九我們抗爭完的那天，馬上寫陳情函到總統府、行政院陳情出去。回函下來，這是一百零五年陳情的。
行政院下來文說：他已有行政違失，亦無適當拆遷補償及安置作為。叫退輔會去處理。有沒有處理？沒有。還是依法、判決這樣走，走那個法律程序這樣子。一直搞我們。

鄭宇焱：
我再整理一下剛剛戚叔（戚本忠）所講的：
剛剛戚叔有講到這個就是當時我們大觀社區的居民跟婦聯會簽訂的契約，大家如果有興趣的話可以往前看沒關係。
大家腳底下踩的大觀社區這塊地過去是板橋林家的地。板橋林家應該大家都知道，林家花園那個林本源的地。過去在國民政府來台的時候，他直接跟婦聯會，婦聯會當時是以蔣宋美齡為會長。她就來借用板橋林家的地就說：我要來這裡蓋一個眷村，我要來這裡蓋一個福利中心。到後來他借用的時候，他就對外招商跟大家簽約。所以慢慢的榮民榮眷開始住進來在這裡生活。
但是我們可以看到的是什麼？看到的是之後大觀社區也沒有經歷任何程序就交給了國有土地，交給國有財產了。所以戚叔才會講說五十五年的時候陸軍總部跑去登記說這是我跟林家買來的。但是為什麼民國五十五年就認定這一塊是國有土地？以及在收回國有土地之後，就是剛剛講到婦聯一村遷村之後，你也沒有積極地管理這塊土地？你婦聯會還是保有一個租約讓他們居民住在這裡，這五六十年間你沒有去善盡你管理的責任。反而是到九七年的時候才去提告？
剛才有另外提一點就是說：這個文件是民國八十七年退輔會有想要大觀社區解決問題。他要求大觀社區居民要提出你們的水電證明以及居住證明，來辦理可能可以對於這塊土地承租承購的方式。來解決大觀社區產權一直不確定的狀態。但是我們可以看到板橋榮家在處理這件事情的時候，因為人事的更迭，主任一直換，裡面處理的辦理這個業務的人員也是一直換。之後過了幾年之後就沒有下文了。應該說隔年就沒有下文。就是八十七年那一次開完協調會，居民也願意提出水電證明跟居住證明。可是到後來就沒有下文。直到民國九十七年開始對於大觀社區居民提出民事告訴，要求拆屋還地。以及要求繳納不當得利這樣。

Qi Ben-zhong:
… They deducted the benefits and returned the amount to you and told you that you were not allowed to do business here. At that time, 2,500 NTD was a lot. One ping of land was only 10 to 20 NTD, imagine how big 2,500 was! My father at that time obeyed the government's policy and didn't buy land. Because we were expected to reclaim the mainland back then, and all the governmental units were connected. So we don't know what to do, now that things have come to this.
In 1968, the Veterans’ Affairs Council came here to build the Banqiao Veterans’ Home. They borrowed part of the land. We were able enter the Veterans' Home originally in our first community tour. Later they locked the door and wouldn’t let us in. They felt guilty and were afraid that we were up to something. The inscribed tablet there is gone, the other one is sitting over there.
In 1968, the Veterans’ Affairs Council obtained the land from the National Women's League of the R.O.C. and built the Veterans' Home. Well, if you’re in charge of the land then you ought to have sent someone to deal with us. It's like what people say: the son must pay for the father's debts. If you are in charge of the land, then you are responsible of managing the residents living on this land. You didn't. In 2008 they sued us for occupying state-owned land. I don’t know what they were doing all these years.
In 1993, we submitted our past water and electricity bills in hopes of buying or leasing the land. They sent us an official document telling us to submit proof that we've been living here since 1970. We submitted proof that our house was built in 1961. No reply. Now they're accusing us of encroaching on state-owned land. Is that really reasonable? I've been living on this land before the Veterans' Home was even built. I was paying rent. There was a flood in 1963, the whole village left, no one was managing this place. Suddenly, the army headquarters took over the land, said that they bought it. They said they bought the land in In 1956, and in 1966 they registered the transaction. Then what were we all this time? Am I Right?
This is how the story goes. The Veterans’ Affairs Council accused me of encroaching on state-owned land, but I was recruited by the government to do business here. Isn't that right? Now you accuse me of occupying state-owned land. You say you're going to tear down my house. You can't say that I'm guilty of encroaching on state-owned land, you can't order us to tear down the house and return the land. We built your house. We took 2,500 NTD, don't know how much that's worth now. Because at that time, one ping of land was only 10 or so NTD, can you imagine how much land 2,500 could buy? That was in 1995, in 2008 they sued us for occupying state-owned land. I went to the presidential palace in 2012, but the matter evaporated once it reached the Veterans' Affairs Council. The presidential palace passed it to the Executive Yuan and the Executive Yuan passed it to the Veterans' Affairs Council. They ignore you and that's that. Last year, Aug 19, after we protested, we immediately sent a petition to the Presidential Palace and the Executive Yuan and received a reply, this was in 2016.
The Executive Yuan stated that this was obviously a breach in administration, and pointed out that there was no proper compensation for demolition and resettlement. They ordered the Veterans' Affairs Council to set the matters straight. But did they? No. They still went with the verdict and are now taking legal action. They are bullies.

Zheng Yu-yan:
Let me recap what uncle Qi just said:
Uncle Qi mentioned that the residents of Daguan had signed a contract with the National Women's League of the R.O.C. The land which you are stepping on now used to be owned by the Lins from Banqiao. You all probably know about the Lin family from Banqiao; the Lin Family Mansion and Garden belonged to Lin Ben-yuan. When the KMT first came to Taiwan, the head National Women's League of the R.O.C., Soong Mei-ling, came to borrow the land from the Lin's, "we're going to build a veteran's village and a welfare center." When she got the land, she signed contracts with many vendors. Gradually, veterans and their families moved in and began their life here.
But what do we see? We see that afterwards, the Daguan community became state-owned land without any proper procedure. That's why Uncle Qi mentioned that the Army Headquarters went forth to register, saying that they bought the land from the Lins. But why was it recognized as state-owned land in 1966? Also, after it became state-owned land, after the veterans' village moved away, did you take initiative to manage the land? The residents still had the lease from the National Women's League of the R.O.C. Did they make any effort to manage the place during these fifty to sixty years? Why did they suddenly sue in 2008?
Another point mentioned earlier is that this document over here is evidence that the Veterans' Affairs Council did want to settle the matter with the Daguan residents back in 1998. They asked the residents of the Daguan community to submit their electricity and water bill as well as proof of residence so that they could lease or purchase the land and solve the ambiguous property rights of the Daguan community. However, the director and the personnel responsible of the matter kept changing due to high staff turn over. The next year there ceased to be any follow up on the matter. They held a coordination meeting in 1998; residents submitted electricity and water bills as well as proof of residence. But there was no follow up. It was not until 2008 that the Veterans' Affairs Council filed a civil lawsuit against the residents and demanded that they tore down their houses and returned the land. They also ordered them to return unjust enrichment.

Transcription: 許莫
Translator: PCkid 死覺青